| Author |
Message |
    
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1702
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 04:17 am: | 
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Kabul Bank. Sounds like the Karzai's corrupt kin saw the handouts to US banks and would like to get a piece of the pie. "Please, sirs, our bank is too big to fail, too! Bail us out too, the US has lots of money!" |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1690
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 02:36 am: |
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Ivan - [ELP]
Actually, I never of em before. Their sound strikes me as a sort of "John Cage meets punk rock" synthesis, nasty stuff that makes your ears bleed. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2929
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 10:27 pm: |
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Has ELP vanished from the public psyche? |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1689
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 08:57 pm: |
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Ivan - [tarkus]
Never mind, I found a bigger image - it's a cross between an armadillo and a tank.
tarkus
(Message edited by super on August 29, 2010) |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1688
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 08:44 pm: |
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Ivan [HMS Tarkus]
I'm not sure what a "HMS Tarkus" is ... some kind of schnauser? The picture is too small for my poor bifocal bedecked eyes. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2927
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 06:34 pm: |
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Super - [some minor technical difficulties sailing a bunch of British gunboats into Kabul Harbor]
Nah, HMS Tarkus should be up to the job.
 |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1687
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 04:57 am: |
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I suppose there might be some minor technical difficulties sailing a bunch of British gunboats into Kabul Harbor, though. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12318
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 07:32 am: |
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Nice of the Sultan to put himself and all of his followers into one building, easily visible from the harbor.... |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2925
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 12:56 am: |
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Now this is the way you ought to do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War
None of these seven-years-and-still-stuck kind of modern things. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2920
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 11:58 pm: |
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Heel - Iran
You are right that a lot of the rich (and politically connected, mostly the same thing) left 30 years ago with the revolution. However it is also true that the bottom half has come up a lot too.
As for the drop in birth rate, that's come from the same reasons as elsewhere, primarily female education: "Women make up more than 50 percent of Iranian university students with some fields in science and engineering having more than 70 percent of their alumni comprising of women.[8] The opportunities for women education and their involvement in higher education has grown exponentially after the Iranian Revolution.[8] According to UNESCO world survey, Iran has the highest female to male ratio at primary level of enrollment in the world among sovereign nations, with a girl to boy ratio of 1.22 : 1.00.[9]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iran |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12283
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 02:16 pm: |
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Iran is about as equal because the richest part of the population left. If the top 1% in the U.S. qwent into exile, we'd be a heck of a lot more equal.
I'm very surprised that Iran has curtailed its population explosion so abruptly. Either the data is wrong, or something drastic happened... |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2919
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 12:46 pm: |
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Heel - I don't have the graphic for the other countries you want, although the data behind the graphic is readily available.
More on the real Iran behind the demonization:
Gini coefficient (measure of economic equality, lower is more equal - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient)
Sweden - 23.3
UK - 34.1
Iran - 44.5
US - 45.0
Brazil - 56.7
Namibia - 70.7
GDP per capita, US$:
US - 46300
Sweden - 43900
UK - 35700
Iran - 11300
Brazil - 10500
Namibia - 6600
Population (millions):
US - 310
Brazil - 192
Iran - 74
UK - 62
Sweden - 9
Namibia - 2
So the US is three times as big as Iran, 12 times as rich, and about as equal. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12282
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 08:32 am: |
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Ivan - That's a pretty cool graph, but I can't seem to get it for anyone but Iran, Turkey, and China. I'd like to see one for Japan or Italy or Russia.
It's good that Iran's growth is slowing down, partly because it really needs to slow down, and partly because it's an indication of improved economic conditions. Still, I think they have tripled in the last 50 years, and they have a population that doesn't really fit on their land, not that that makes them much different from everyone else in that region. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1674
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 02:42 am: |
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tree - [the younger generation of Iranians]
Judging by what seemed to be a stolen election earlier this year, it really doesn't seem to matter what the electorate wants. Iran seems to be a theocratic dictatorship that is clearly anti-american. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2918
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 06:26 pm: |
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Heel - not quite
[(they are multiplying faster than the ability to improve their lot)]
Iran has crossed the demographic transition and its population growth rate is now 1.1% and headed down; a large part of the population increase derives from increased life expectancy rather than birth rate, although that influence is diminishing because Iran life expectancy is now up to first-world numbers. Consequently there's a demo bulge in the 15-25 age group, but this will move up the pyramid and out in the usual way. Contrast the growth rate with say Pakistan (1.9%), Afghanistan (3.1%) or the US (0.9%).
Iran has also crossed the urbanization line, and 68% of the population live in cities; greater Tehran is 12 million people, about like New York.
Source: http://www.irantour.org/Iran/population.html, and many others not as well presented. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7628
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 03:01 pm: |
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And, in the meantime, there's Pakistan.
People are living worse than animals there too.
(Message edited by tychobrahe on August 22, 2010) |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12281
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 02:46 pm: |
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If, by "reform", you mean a desire to get rid of the theocracy, I doubt the desire was ever all that strong. The Western press likes to talk to the "westernized" part of the population, which means they seldom leave North Tehran (if they even bother to go to Iran at all, rather than getting all their info from exiles on the west side of LA and in the San Fernando Valley).
That's kind of like deciding what the American people want by sampling the inhabitants of Manhattan below 110th Street.
My Tajik landlord in LA (Tajiks speak Persian) told me that he was in Tehran right before the 1979 revolution. He met with some Ahmedinejad-type guys and expressed his surprise that they were so upset with conditions there, as things looked quite prosperous to him. They took him to South Tehran, and he says he came away stunned. People were living worse than animals there.
There's still a huge disparity between the two sides of Tehran, and between Tehran and the rest of the country, but we only hear one side of it. Ahmedinejad has not been able to deliver prosperity to the poor (they are multiplying faster than the ability to improve their lot), but he delivers lots of heavily subsidized goods to them, enough to keep things from blowing up. |
Treesloth
Registered Member
Username: Treesloth
Post Number: 2802
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 02:03 pm: |
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Five to ten years ago we always heard the the younger generation of Iranians wanted reform and it was only a matter of time until the regime was toppled. Obviously the mullahs rule with an iron fist. Has the desire for reform subsided, or are the reformers just terrified? |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12280
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 01:41 pm: |
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I sure hope the U.S. doesn't get drawn into that mess.
The ability of the Iranians to use proxies to cause us trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan is very high. They could also cause problems in the Persian Gulf and Strait of Hormuz, but that would risk having their own oil/gas exports (and imports of gasoline) cut off... |
Treesloth
Registered Member
Username: Treesloth
Post Number: 2800
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 01:20 pm: |
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Heel,
I sure hope the U.S. doesn't get drawn into that mess. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12278
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 01:13 pm: |
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Good article in Atlantic this month about possibility of Israel attacking Iran. Author seems to think there's a good chance of it, next Spring. Apparently, the first thing Iran would do in response is turn loose Hezbollah in Lebanon, which may now have 45,000 missiles which can cover most of Israel.
Of course, it's a lose-lose proposition for Israel, and a win-win proposition for Iran... |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 12:13 pm: |
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Ahmadinijad announced a new Iranian drone called the "Ambassador of Death". The new drone is only 6 inches long and is piloted by little "action figures" no larger than Ahmadinijad himself.
"http://www.haaretz.com/news/is-iran-s-new-drone-really-an-israeli-aircraft-1.274 294 |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1629
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 02:24 pm: |
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This guy Gen Petraeus seem pretty competent and has progressed from an improvement of the situation in Mosul to an improvement of sorts in Iraq as a whole to (currently) taking over in Afghanistan after the McChristal flap. Regrettably he is not a miracle worker and reports of disgusting slaughters perpetrated in the name of Islam from Mosul and from Iraq as a whole continue, routinely if a bit less frequently.
I can't help wondering if we will be better off as a result of these wars that started in the Bush years. I suppose an alternative strategy would have been to sterilize population centers, "bomb em back to the stone age". Genocidal, of course. Not nice at all.
Perhaps the approach we took will serve as an example illustrating that that sort of genocidal thing is obsolete, unthinkable. I have a nasty suspicion it won't impress Al Qaida much, though. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7505
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 10:28 am: |
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I wish he had said more than that. We're capable of making that judgment on our own. We don't need a Afghani government minister and Taliban opponent to tell us that.
I wish I had seen the interview, but I missed Sixty Minutes this week.
The thing that's bothering me about Afghanistan these days---aside from young Americans being killed and maimed there---is the graft and corruption that is enriching a lot of these government officials.
When she was there, Maddow showed these extraordinary 15-bedroom mansions that have been built by the new rich in Afghanistan. Apparently they don't even live in these places. Some of them live in Dubai! Yeah, that sounds right; government officials in one of the world's poorest countries cavorting around with the world's super-rich in Dubai on American money.
I can see why they wouldn't want us to get out or to stop spending our billions there.
This is starting to sound familiar; We back a government that is corrupt and unresponsive to the needs of its people, then wonder why those people are somewhat less than enthusiastic in their support of that government and why they're not eager to give their lives for it. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12138
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 08:31 am: |
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Tycho - if I recall, he said the next consequence would be that the U.S. would have lost a war, and to the Taliban/AlQaeda, no less. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12137
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 08:30 am: |
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Ivan - No data, other than an estimate of over 10,000 Hezara (many of whom starved).
I think the guy who said two million is thinking along the same lines as me, which is that the first time around the Taliban saw themselves as educating people, and this time they'll know who they can't educate. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2887
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 01:47 am: |
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Heel - got any data on the massacres the first time the Taliban won?
(Not counting actual combat) |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7500
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 03:25 pm: |
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Did he say what would be second, after the massacres? |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 12130
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 03:13 pm: |
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Last night, Sixty Minutes re-ran a piece on Afghanistan, in which they interviewed a government minister who has been a long-time opponent of the Taliban. They asked him what would happen if the U.S. bugged out...
"First, the massacres", he said. He gave a figure of two million that would be killed by the Taliban. I've noticed that Afghans routinely add a zero to estimates, so he was really saying two hundred thousand, which corresponds to my own uneducated guess as to what would happen... |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2876
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 03:21 pm: |
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Tycho - "stable government" is horseshit. The Taliban were a stable government, first in 20 years, that had completely shut down opium production. Islamic Courts was a stable government in Somalia. Hell, Saddaam was a stable government in Iraq.
But they weren't the right stable government. And they had strategic resources or location and weren't "cooperating". |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7464
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 10:57 am: |
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Here's a copy of an email I sent to a young friend in response to an email he sent me about Afghanistan:
Hi Shawn!
Although Richard Holbrooke, a man I respect, says that this is not like Vietnam, it continues to feel a lot like Vietnam to me. Holbrooke says essentially the same thing about Afghanistan that Cheney/Bush said about Iraq, that we have to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here. This is not an exact quote, but it is pretty darned close to what he said to Maddow in the recent interview: We have to give the Afghanis a chance to build a stable government. Without a stable government, the Taliban will come back and Al Qaeda will reestablish itself there with the blessing of the Taliban. Al Qaeda will then use Afghanistan as a launching ground for attacks against us.
I have the same problem with this that I had with Cheney/Bush on their Iraq attack, "we have to fight them there, so we don't have to fight them here". I just doesn't seem to me that Al Qaeda needs a central operations platform, in Afghanistan or anywhere else, from which to plot attacks against us. That is the problem. Even if we could eliminate forever every Al Qaeda from the entire nation of Afghanistan, would we then be safe from terrorist attack?
In Vietnam, it was the domino theory; if we didn't fight the communists in Vietnam, we would have to fight them in the Philippines, Hawaii, and on the beaches of San Diego.
I also remember "Vietnamization," the idea that we had to build up the South Vietnamese forces so they could defend themselves. Those of us that are old enough to remember will recall the ARVN, the wonderful South Vietnamese Army that was going to take over the fight and allow us to leave.
Johnson also kept talking about the light at the end of the tunnel, as the war in Vietnam kept going on and on and on and many thousands of young Americans were killed or blown apart.
There is one difference, I think, between Vietnam and Afghanistan. We should never have been in Vietnam in the first place. Perhaps there was sufficient reason for us to attack Afghanistan, though, in an effort to get OBL after 9/11. I think this was probably a legitimate effort, one that I supported. Perhaps, had we kept our eye on the ball there instead of attacking Iraq for whatever reason Cheney wanted to do so, our efforts in Afghanistan might have been successful. ("We had them in Afghanistan. Then we gave them a gift. We went to Iraq," - General Anthony Zinni, USMC)
Like you, I hope I'm wrong about this. I hope there is an end game, an achievable objective. I don't want to see another brave American killed or blown apart in a lost cause. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1580
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 03:19 pm: |
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That guy hunting Osama might have been looking in the wrong country. More than one theory has him in Iran.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1272931/Osama-bin-Laden-Iran-c laims-Feathered-Cocaine-documentary.html
Hey, international falcon smuggling as a plot twist? Tehran? And Ahmadinejad denies it? (We all know Ahmadinejad is a liar, so that's irrefutable confirmation!)
All a person has to do is search for linkage between Osama and Iran on google or youtube to get further information!
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=osama+iran
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=osama+iran&aq=f |
Yawawots
Registered Member
Username: Yawawots
Post Number: 230
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:12 am: |
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I like this guy. 
American claiming to be hunting bin Laden arrested
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100615/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_bin_laden_hunter |
Yawawots
Registered Member
Username: Yawawots
Post Number: 227
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 07:16 am: |
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Now you boys play nice and get back on subject now. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1561
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 03:16 am: |
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Tycho - [ethnophaulisms]
Fuck off, marine. I've worked in the same state office as a tough old Chinese guy whose family used to dig for gold in their own mine. I've dredged a Chinese coin and an old ax head from gravel 2 feet below the bed of the frigid American River. I've walked the railwroad right-of-way above Donner Pass. If you think "Chinaman" is an epithet you have one hell of a lot to learn.
(Message edited by super on June 15, 2010) |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7359
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 01:21 am: |
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Super,
I must admit that I find the term chinaman a bit jarring, especially when it comes from a person who takes such deep offense by the "n" word that he has made it the only word that is actually censored from 11Wall.
Raghead, chinaman . . .
Are blacks the only people on Earth who you feel should be unburdened by ethnophaulisms? |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:36 am: |
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Ivan - [gold]
BTW, see any poppies growing in that pit? |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1559
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:34 am: |
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Ivan - [gold]
I've panned gold, I've explored old shafts near Sacramento, I've been where the chinamen dug and seen the nasty dangerous tunnels they left.
All it takes is an idiot stick and a fool to operate it. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7358
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 08:35 pm: |
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Ivan,
We sure don't use shovels at gold mines anymore. We're a heck of a lot more efficient than that.
Hand shovels seem to be good enough for cleaning up Gulf beaches though.
I remember the Exxon Valdez. Exxon's CEO was heard saying, "I don't care if the booms actually contain the oil. I just want pictures of 'em out there in the water."
I think that's what BP wants too . . . lots of pictures of booms. Never mind maintaining 'em at all, just get lots of nice pictures of 'em before they float into the wetlands. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2845
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 06:54 pm: |
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Super - seen a gold mine lately?
http://www.gartondigital.com/image/Homestake%20Mine.jpg
Some shovel. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1558
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 01:12 pm: |
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I suppose that if I had a nice quiet opium farm and some idiot started a gold rush, people might come and dig up all my beautiful poppies looking for gold, or I might run off with a shovel looking for gold and forget to take care of my poppies. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7355
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:52 am: |
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Maybe my next post about Afghanistan will generate a comprehensive explanation of natural selection. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7354
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:39 am: |
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Ivan,
I certainly understand what's interesting about the story itself and the timing of its release. When I suggested it doesn't mean anything, it was just an offhand comment on the fact that the subject has been mentioned on three different boards all on one morning. This is the first time in my recollection that this has occurred. That is what probably doesn't mean anything.
(Message edited by tychobrahe on June 14, 2010) |
Yawawots
Registered Member
Username: Yawawots
Post Number: 224
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:16 am: |
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"What does it mean? . . . Not a damned thing. Just something that occurred to me"
Cause and Effect (Causation)
Cause and effect (or simply causation) refers to a specific relationship between events in time. If you fail to look both ways before crossing a street and get hit by a car, the cause is failing to look and the effect is getting hit. If a doctor tells you that you have a broken leg from the accident, the broken leg is the effect of getting hit by the car, which is the cause. An event (in this case, the accident) can be both a cause and an effect of other events.
As a strategy of development, causation answers the question "Why did it happen?" You will find causation useful not only by itself but also combined with other strategies. It is often used with process because how something happened (process) is often related to why something happened (causation).
For many subjects--particularly those related to social and political matters--causes and effects are ambiguous or indistinct, leaving you unsure about the truth of the situation. Therefore, you must be very careful when you discuss causes and effects. For many subjects you also have the reactions of your reader to worry about because your analysis of a cause-and-effect relationship might be controversial, and your reader may not agree with you. For example, in discussions about causes and effects in certain social issues--such as crime or government spending--some readers may object to your analysis. Therefore, stance is very important in this strategy.
Recognizing the Signs of Causation
In order to identify and determine whether or not a cause-and-effect relationship is logical, you should look for certain signs. Two of the most common are:
The Sign of Association. Suppose you find two events, A and B, in association. Their being together could imply that A causes B, or vice versa. However, B must ordinarily occur whenever A does--otherwise you probably don't have a genuine cause-and-effect relationship. For instance, hair should bleach when a strong solution of peroxide is applied to it; the cook should burn his hand every time he touches a very hot skillet handle.
The Sign of Time-Sequence. If B comes after A in time, this fact may imply a causal relationship. If a student stays up all night studying, the fatigue he suffers the next day is an effect signaled by time. But determining time-sequence is so tricky that a special name has been given to the fallacy of misinterpreting it. The fallacy is called post hoc (short for post hoc, ergo propter hoc--"after this, therefore because of this"). You create the post hoc fallacy if you say that A causes B merely because B comes after A. In other words, if the 8:30 train comes after the 8:15 train, you cannot say that the earlier train "causes" the later one.
In brief, the signs of causation are no more than signs--they are not proofs. To avoid making fallacies in thinking about causation, you must take each sign and investigate it carefully. Never assume that a causal relationship exists until you find proof. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2843
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:08 am: |
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Tycho - trifecta
It was not prospecting; it was a lit survey, some USCGS guys went through the published reports, the filed claims and so on. Never left Kabul, maybe never went to A at all. It's the politics of the announcement, and the mass distribution thereof, that's interesting. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7353
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:19 am: |
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It's the Trifecta!
Wow, those Afghan mineral deposits are really something! . . . Posted on three different boards this morning . . . Economy, PM's, and the T. Board.
I don't remember that ever happening before.
What does it mean? . . . Not a damned thing. Just something that occurred to me. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11886
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 09:04 am: |
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I wonder if those ICBM's we have really work.
We don't need them, at least not for Pakistan. Just withdraw all our "aid" and declare it a terrorist country, and Pakistan would implode into an enormous bloodbath.
Not a good situation there... |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1556
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 02:16 am: |
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OK, I thought the story in my last post was cute, but this tops it:
Pentagon team finds gold deposits in Afghanistan:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100614/ap_on_bi_ge/us_afghanistan_mineral_treasures
Nobody could make this stuff up. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1555
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 02:04 am: |
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Story about Pakistan's government and president supporting the Taliban:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100614/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan
Hilarious. I just watched the movie "Law Abiding Citizen" on DVD tonight. Nothing like a good revenge movie to color one's thoughts when contemplating international conspiracies. I wonder if those ICBM's we have really work. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2836
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 10:45 am: |
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Gap - damned if you do and damned if you don't
There's a natural response the pirates have if they start dying on the way home - refuse to leave the ship, refuse to let the crew off, and boobytrap the hull. Russians lose a "rescued" tanker - then what? A race to see if the commandos can get all the pirates before the leader can punch the button on his cell phone? Nah.
It's called escalation. Works once, may work several times, not a long term solution. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2835
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 10:40 am: |
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Stow - not Palestinian and not rocks; .50 cal from the Syrian Army. |
Gap
Registered Member
Username: Gap
Post Number: 1214
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 10:39 am: |
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Compare to the handling of genuine pirates off the Somali coast.
AP Article
quote:A Russian official claimed Tuesday that 10 pirates seized by Russian special forces aboard an oil tanker last week were quickly freed but then died on their way back to the Somali coast.
The unidentified high-ranking Defense Ministry official did not elaborate on how the pirates died, deepening a mystery that has prompted speculation the pirates were executed by commandos who had freed a Russian oil tanker seized in waters 500 miles (800 kilometers) east of Somalia's coast.
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Yawawots
Registered Member
Username: Yawawots
Post Number: 207
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 09:50 am: |
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Krauthammer makes very good points.
Fox All-Stars on Israeli Raid (5.31.10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgVA5TPf6o8
Why Israelis are upset about Israeli raid on Gaza freedom flotilla
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0601/Why-Israelis-are-upset-abou t-Israeli-raid-on-Gaza-freedom-flotilla |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11784
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 09:10 am: |
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Is this paranoid enough?
It's good for a start. Parts of it weren't at all paranoid, though, so there's room for improvement. |
Rjoh
Registered Member
Username: Rjoh
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 08:56 am: |
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Hey guys - its been a while
My two cents on recent terrorism views:
The media is not diverse enough to allow various views to be expressed on the same observation. For example - I am still struggling with why building $7 fell like it did, why Bush couldn't get up from a kindergarten class when told we were bring attacked, why ALL Norad protective exercises were done simultaneously on September 11th.
I am still troubled why the media allows continued involvement in Iraq and involvement in Afganistan to be labeled as anything other than nationbuilding.
I am troubled by the reference of the USA as the richest nation on earth by the media when we are such a large debtor.
I am troubled by the conflicting agendas between truthful reporting and governmental coordination.
I am troubled by the apparent move away from observing national sovereignty toward global control especially as politicians fall all over themselves praising dead "American" soldiers in our cemeteries.
I am troubled by the ability of Executive Branch agencies to fail to operate yet stay in place as if nothing had transpired. If the FAA,FDA,SEC, various housing administrations, Treasury and now the Mineral Management groups are exposed as ineffective the door is open to terrorists to ply their trade.
How long before we see terrorists blowing up off shore oil rigs?
I asked a Congressman directly a few days ago why we can't protect our southern border and he said WE DID NOT HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL TO DO SO.
I feel like there is an alternate agenda when the government thinks millions of soldiers need to be overseas when only 300 per state are assigned to protect our border. Mrs Clinton gives away more money to foreign potentates than we spend protecting our borders. Is it even legal to give taxpayer money away for foreign governments?
Hope this isn't too long for a complex topic - its been a while and with the market drifting down I'd rather chat with my friends than watch the media trounce the markets. I wonder if there isn't an agenda operating there as well to terrorize stock market participants too.
Is this paranoid enough?
Best Regards
RJ |
Yawawots
Registered Member
Username: Yawawots
Post Number: 206
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 07:23 am: |
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Ivan
" Couldn't hear the fire itself, incoming sounded like hail,
I suppose because all the muzzle velocity was expended. Any of you
vets have experience with extreme range small arms fire and can
explain the sound"
It sounds like the Palestinians throwing rocks they got from your tunnels. High technology back in the day. Road side bombs and rockets are the new toys they use now days.
There is no law if "defense of terrorism" trumps law.
Its called survival!
"Your own people died in the ovens to save the Fatherland from terrorism"
They woke up when they got there own motherland back. And people wonder why Israel takes a hard stand against terrorism. And they always will.
I've lived in Israel and been machine-gunned there. Lousy shots.
Ivan I thought you said you could not here the fire sound. They did have automatics back in the day now before pain ball guns.......... I know tunnels tunnels........... Hi Ho Hi Ho
Ivan I still think you take the safety and security of the US at times for granted. Even in your area that has done a 180 turn around from years past. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2834
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 12:31 am: |
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Heel :-)
Range a couple of miles. Kfar HaNassi, near Rosh Pinna - .50 cal from the Golan, just random spray at max elevation. Broke a few windows, but nobody hit the year I was there. You were supposed to hit the trenches, but nobody bothered - burst would be over by the time you got cover. Couldn't hear the fire itself, incoming sounded like hail, I suppose because all the muzzle velocity was expended. Any of you vets have experience with extreme range small arms fire and can explain the sound? |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11780
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 10:02 pm: |
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You don't let commandos determine policy. You shouldn't even let them determine tactics. Apparently, the Israeli commandos got to call the tune. Coming down from helicopters, with paint guns? You gotta be kidding me. Hamas couldn't have designed it better if they'd been asked.
Other than that, I have to say that the Israelis are behaving with way more restraint than we would if people had fired thousands of rockets from Tijuana into San Diego.
Ivan, if they missed you, they were trying to miss. They wouldn't miss someone your size by accident....
(Message edited by public_heel on May 31, 2010) |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2833
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 09:47 pm: |
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Stow - personal p.s.
I've lived in Israel and been machine-gunned there. Lousy shots. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2832
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 09:41 pm: |
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Stow - no
There is no law if "defense of terrorism" trumps law. Your own people died in the ovens to save the Fatherland from terrorism.
"inspect, no guns, off you go"? Right. This was what - the ninth attempt? Every one had guns aboard? Right. As if Gaza needed a second channel after the tunnels.
Iz has an economic blockade going. No ships get through, period. It's announced policy. Remember Warsaw? |
Yawawots
Registered Member
Username: Yawawots
Post Number: 205
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 09:18 pm: |
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Ivan
"Don't see where a propaganda machine can either cause or cure a corpse, or move a ship 75 kilometers"
But a propaganda machine can distort the facts and the truth to serve there own cause. It happens all the time.
If it truly was a humanitarian mission why not just let Israel inspect it and or deliver it. Why challenge the blockade. Egypt joined this blockade now for a reason as well. Israel doesn't want any more weapons in Gaza. They are trying to deal with a big terrorism problem. Its not easy being a country surrounded by country's that support and supply Islamic terrorists. And I bet the people were not all of the humanitarian type. The idea behind a blockade is to check for contraband / weapons. If none is found the ship continues on it's way. If its found the ship is impounded. If the ship resists "arrest"... and they sink it. This whole thing sounds just like propaganda in an effort to get backing to remove the blockade. So the blockade must be having some positive effect for Israel.
Ivan you may have a different view if you did lived next door to Islamic terrorists killing people. When you have the fear for the safety of you and your family being blown up. You might have a different point of view. I think you take the safety and security of the US at times for granted. I know after 911 I try very hard not to my self. I appreciate the people that have fought and died for all of our safety and freedoms we still have.
(Message edited by yawawots on May 31, 2010) |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2831
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 04:13 pm: |
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super - propaganda
There seems to be consensus on the location and casualty count of the event. Don't see where a propaganda machine can either cause or cure a corpse, or move a ship 75 kilometers. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11775
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 04:12 pm: |
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I agree it's farce, but one that can kill you if you get too close. Also, because people all over the world choose to take it seriously - seldom for good reasons - it has the potential to cause far more harm than the vast amount it already has caused.
n.b. There may be only one guy here for East Palo Alto, but there might be more than one Ivan. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1543
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 04:06 pm: |
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Ivan - [East Palo Alto]
East Palo Alto and Sacramento are both a long ways from Gaza. We weren't there. We are being led around by the nose by competing propaganda machines. I see it as farce, you actually believe it has some sort of meaning. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2830
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 02:12 pm: |
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Super -
the guy from East Palo Alto (I think there's only one here) has a name: Ivan. Please use it. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2829
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 02:06 pm: |
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I sure hope that commando gets court-marshalled for letting an unarmed civilian take his weapon away.
Funny how it's always the police (army, whatever) who are under attack and always the other guys who are dead.
Unless there's cameras that survive.
International law says you cannot stop and search a non-belligerent ship on the high seas. The US fought its first war over that issue. And the next two after that too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1541
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 01:26 pm: |
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Ivan - [ten killed in international waters]
Odd, how semantics spins it any way a person wants.
The initial report from the Israeli army said a palestinian grabbed a commando's gun and shot a lot of Palestinians and Israelis.
The Israeli PM says the commandos did all the killing. No mention or explanation of Israeli casualties.
TORONTO – Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu says commandos who raided a Gaza aid flotilla, killing nine and injuring dozens of others, were under attack and acting in self defense. ... Netanyahu says Israel wanted to check the cargo to ensure it contained no weapons.
AlJazeera has video links.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/05/31/live-coverage-israels-flotilla -raid#update-idfexpl
The guy in East Palo Alto says the flotillistas weren't Somali pirates, presumably because no ransom demands for Israeli warships have been reported (so far).
Farce with loud noises! Slapstick, with live ammo!
---------------
Seriously, the flotilla folks obviously set out to provoke a confrontation. The Israelis obviously (and rather stupidly) obliged them. Once again all hope of peace in the middle east is doused with the cold water of enmity.
(Message edited by super on May 31, 2010) |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2828
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 07:52 am: |
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Super -
hardly slapstick to the ten killed in international waters.
Compare to the handling of genuine pirates off the Somali coast. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1540
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 03:12 am: |
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Aw fer hevins sake. Stupid Palestinians, undiplomatic Israelis, knives, clubs, commandos who give their guns to muslim meatheads - is it news or is it slapstick comedy?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2826
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2010 - 01:48 pm: |
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North Korea
AP suggests succession games -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100527/ap_on_an/as_skorea_ship_sinks_analysis
The news is pretty well under control, so I take that as an official US position. However, it doesn't mention the possibility of a rogue or faction action, preferring to consider NK as a monolith. I'd guess that all 5 (US, SK, China, Russia) are terrified by the prospect of NK factional war and are doing everything they can to prop up Kim and assure an orderly succession. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2825
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 09:04 pm: |
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Tycho - Kim sick
Going to China for medical doesn't make sense to me - he'd just get the doctors sent to Pyongyang.
Unless he doesn't want to be unconscious in NK with *anybody*. |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7299
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 05:49 pm: |
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I think you're right on the money, Ivan. Only way I'd deviate from this would be the reason for Kim's trip to China. He's sick and dying. Maybe even more sick and incapacitated than the world knows. Despite the luxurious accomodations of his personal train, I can't imagine he'd travel all that distance just to tell the Chinese he didn't do it. My guess is he doesn't like his prognosis and went to China to see if he could get a better one from Chinese doctors.
I do think the possibility of the rogue commander is very real. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11745
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 04:56 pm: |
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Ivan
Occam's Razor
Boneheadedness |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2824
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 04:46 pm: |
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Heel - I'm somewhat leaning the way you do. Plausible (to me) scenario: Kim's dying, and the factions in NK are jockeying for the next era. There's a particularly hard line segment in the military. A plot, probably *not* with Kim's blessing, and possibly just a rogue sub commander, decides on a fait accompli. Down goes the ship.
That leaves Kim with a problem: if he accepts responsibility and blames the plotters then he will lose face with the world, lose the backing of what is likely a critical faction, and could well fall. So he has to deny everything while siccing the security faction on the plotters. That plays into the hands of the SK hardline factions, but they are less worrisome. The trip to China was to make sure that China knows that NK did it, Kim didn't do it, and to secure China's backing against the faction buzzards. China is also stuck - better the nutjob they know than some presently-obscure Colonel getting the NK nuke.
Make sense? |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11743
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 03:45 pm: |
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Ivan - I think you may be underestimating the North Korean potential for boneheadedness. A universal human trait, but the North Koreans went through the line three times (the South Koreans only twice). |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2823
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - 03:21 pm: |
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Korea -
I don't know what the real story is any more than you do, but I'm increasingly feeling that the public story is not the real story.
I don't trust the reported find of a NK torpedo. Possibilities include the public one (NK sub takes out ship); provocateur (X uses NK torpedo to blow ship; note that NK sells its torpedoes all over the world); spin on innocent accident (old mine takes out ship; SK "finds" NK torpedo); innocent + provocateur (old mine takes out ship; X plants NK torpedo for SK to find); ????.
So I think we cannot go on the evidence, but must instead look to see who gains and who loses by these events. Players are the US, China, Japan, and factions in both NK and SK. The timing of Kim's recent visit to China might be coincidence, but I'd guess not.
I sure don't see any way for the US to gain from the mess, and Japan seems too fractured and disorganized. The only China angle I have thought of is if Kim told the Chinese that he's had enough, is dying, and is going to merge with SK, and the Chinese didn't want that. Possible, but seems implausibe to me.
That leaves impenetrable factional politics in either NK or SK. Good luck. |
Public_heel
Moderator
Username: Public_heel
Post Number: 11704
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 - 02:20 pm: |
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I think we should declare Jihad against Pakistan.
Confuse the hell out of 'em.... |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1524
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 - 01:52 pm: |
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Good Grief!
Now there are mass demonstrations against "South Park" and Pakistan has declared Jihad against Facebook?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100519/ap_on_hi_te/as_pakistan_facebook
The Facebook page at the center of the dispute — "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!" — encourages users to post images of the prophet on May 20 to protest threats made by a radical Muslim group against the creators of "South Park" for depicting Muhammad in a bear suit during an episode earlier this year.
So if we mock Mohammed enough will every silly Imam and Wahabi on the planet jump up and down and die of apoplexy?
I say we should GO FOR IT! |
Tychobrahe
Registered Member
Username: Tychobrahe
Post Number: 7206
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 02:44 pm: |
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Damn, missed it by six weeks. |
Miloandbono
Registered Member
Username: Miloandbono
Post Number: 743
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 04:51 pm: |
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thanks Ivan. So it sounds unlikely someone could target 3 or 4 smaller banks for the same result. |
Ivan
Registered Member
Username: Ivan
Post Number: 2806
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 03:58 pm: |
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Milo - bank terror -
possible but only with flagrant incompetence on the bank's part. It's routine for large companies (like banks) to make regular hard copies of database state. These aren't tapes that can be erased any more, they are burnt CDs, and to destroy the info you have to have physical access and the ability to destroy thousands of CDs all at once. The bank will use physical dispersal and offsite vault storage belonging to third parties, not the bank.
So to do this you'd have to subvert the copy-and-burn process to burn garbage data, and not have that discovered before you take down the main and the redundant transaction sites. Not something that would be possible without help from really big screwups and substantial accident. |
Miloandbono
Registered Member
Username: Miloandbono
Post Number: 741
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 11:04 am: |
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Ivan, I was going over reasons to own gold in my head. Tell me if this is reasonably possible.
A small group of terrorist with technical backgrounds hire into a large bank. Their goal after 2 or 3 years of employment is to gain access to account information and all related backups (including offsite). At a designated time they destroy all the data. I believe over time they could recreate correct banking records again, but there would be a level of trust that is lost. |
Super
Moderator
Username: Super
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 19, 2010 - 01:37 pm: |
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US forces say they've killed the top leadership of 'al-Qaida in Iraq'. Again.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100419/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq
It might be more encouraging if this was the first time. |
